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Flodden 1513

Posted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:16 pm
by Cameronian

Laconic AAR at: ... -1513.html

Rules didn't work too well, discovered H and H Med after the event, must give them a go.

Re: Flodden 1513

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:58 am
by Norm
Interesting replay. I am not a fan of showing any missile troops as being capable in close combat. Trained archers were an expensive resource and ill-suited to melee type situations.

I am left with the impression that following contact, the archers formed themselves into small 'knots' and did was is best described as sniper fire between the gaps and on the flanks of the armoured infantry , with perhaps the odd archer running out to dispatch a fallen man-at-arms.

Not sure how that fits in with modelling the likes of Agincourt though.

Re: Flodden 1513

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:28 am
by Cameronian
I've replied on the blog but anyway. Hordes and Heroes Medieval has an elegant skirmishing mechanism which doesn't allow archers to indulge in h-to-h combat. I'm going to adopt this as an optional ability for all my archers.

One way round the Agincourt problem is to allow h-to-h combat but only as supports attacking the flank or rear of an already frontally-engaged stand.

Re: Flodden 1513

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:44 pm
by Paul K
The archers engaging in hand-to-hand combat is an interesting topic for debate. In H&H archers or longbows are quite expensive in points by virtue of their ability to shoot missiles and to use them as close combat troops would seem a waste of resources. However, what happens when archers fail to stop an enemy making contact with them by shooting? Skirmishing infantry can evade, mounted archers can also, but formed missile infantry, in my opinion would have to engage in combat. Missile weapons such as bows, crossbow or musketscan still be used in hand-to-hand combat in addition to swords, daggers etc.
In the H&H army lists missile armed infantry only have a low hand-to-hand combat factor of 1 or 2 with no additional impact bonus, which puts the them at a distinct disadvantage against most close combat infantry.
We have discussed this topic occasionally at the Forest Outlaws club where there is a H&H game most weeks and re-fights of Cressy, Agincourt, Bosworth field etc have all required archers to 'get stuck in' quite often!

Re: Flodden 1513

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:22 pm
by Cameronian
The main problem was the rules used; the combat factor for archers was twice what H and H allows, combine that with pretty even dice scores for each side and you end up with that result. I'm new to H and H but like what I read, yet to run a game using it, only waiting for my D12s!

Thinking of adapting H and H for the Early Italian Wars up to about 1515; troops and tactics not that much different from the 1480s and troops and tactics not that different army from army IMHO of course.